>> THANKS FOR JOINING US, MICHIGAN MODERATE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN FRED UPTON ON A FORMATION OF THE NO LABEL BIPARTISAN POLITICAL PARTY.

OUR LEAD STORY, MICHIGAN IS GETTING OLDER AND POPULATION GROWTH IS A PROBLEM.

WHAT IS THE ANSWER.

ON THE OTR PANEL, SITTING WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT, "OFF THE RECORD."

ANNOUNCER: PRODUCTION OF OF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WAYMIRE, PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATION, DIGITAL MARKET AND PUBLIC POLICY.

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NOW THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.

TIM: THANKS VERY MUCH.

WELCOME BACK TO "OFF THE RECORD."

A BUSY WEEK IN THE TOWN.

THE GOVERNOR HAS FORMED -- GOVERNORS LOVE TO FORM COMMISSIONS DON'T THEY.

LAUREN, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

>> CERTAINLY.

AS WE SAW IT ON THE CITIZENS RESEARCH COUNCIL, OTHER ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BEEN POINTING TO A LOT OF CONCERNS ON THE HORIZON ABOUT MICHIGAN'S POPULATION.

WE ARE AGING FASTER THAN MOST OF THE COUNTRY.

WE ARE NOT GETTING NEW YOUNG PEOPLE COMING INTO THE STATE AND ALO OF YOUNG PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO OTHER STATES ONCE THEY HITTED FROMMATION AND START LOOKING FOR JOBS SO THE GOVERNOR AND OTHERS ARE LOOKING TO TRY TO SEE IF THEY CAN VERSE SOME OF THE TRENDS AS SHE ANNOUNCED ON MACKINAC ISLAND THIS WEEK SHE IS FORMING A COMMISSION TO LOOK INTO THIS ISSUE.

NOW, IT HAS GOTTEN A LITTLE BIT OF BUSHPACK IN TERM OF FORMING A COMMISSION OR POTENTIALLY GETTING INTO POLITICAL WEEDS ALREADY HERE, BUT IT DOES POINT TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS A BIG CONCERN ON THE MINDS OF A LOT OF OFFICIALS A NOW.

I DON'T ENVY PEOPLE THAT WILL SERVE ON THIS COMMISSION.

IT IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT SITUATION.

WHAT THEY ARE FOG SAY?

IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE MIDWEST.

ACROSS THE MIDWEST.

THE STATES ARE HAVING SLOWER GROWTH AND POPULATION THAN THE STATES IN THE SOUTH AND IN THE WEST.

ON TOP OF THAT.

THINK OF THE AM TOOING OF THIS.

THIS COMMISSION IS BEING FORMED AFTER THE STATE HAS ALREADY BASICALLY SPENT DOWN THE SR. PLUS BILLIONS OF SURPLUS MONEY, THEY COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT.

THE STATE HANDED OUT BILLIONS IN INCENTIVES TO DIFFERENT BUSINESSES IN THE AUTO TRY TO COME LOCATE HERE.

NOW, OK, GO FIGURE OW HOW TO SOLVE THE MASSIVE STRUCTURAL PROBLEM WE ARE FACING.

>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE.

SINCE MICHIGAN IS FOUNDED, MICHIGAN HAS BEEN A TOP TEN POPULATION STATE.

ROUGHLY 22nd LARGEST GEOGRAPHIC STATE AND TOP TEN.

THE SHIFT, SHIFTING FROM THE EIGHTH LARGESTS TO THE TENTH LARGEST.

THERE ARE PROTECTIONS INVOLVED HERE RIGHT.

NO RES THE CONTEXT FOR THE 23478ERS.

I WAS TALKING WITH IT TO SOMEBODY RECENTLY.

IT FEELS LIKE THE FEVER.

THE STATE AS BODY WHERE THE UNDERLYING SHALL ILLNESS CAN BE ISSUE ANY TIME.

RIGHT.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN DETROIT.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INABILITY TO HAVE EDUCATIONAL GAINS IN DETROIT AND MANY OTHER PLACES.

FOCUSING ON DETROIT BECAUSE THAT IS EPICENTER OF DECLINE, RIGHT.

THE POPULATION IS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN 1 MILLION AND MOST IS AROUND 600,000 AND NOW SEEN MAYOR DISPUTE THOSE NUMBERS THAT IS THE FAVORITE PUNCHING BAGS, BUT AGAIN, INTERESTING TO SEE HOW ANY OF THE FININGS FROM THE COMMISSION ARE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE HEAR FROM PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT WELL WE NEED CLEAN WATER.

WE NEED SAFE SCHOOLS.

YOU NO?

HE SOME OF THE OTHER JUST BASIC NEEDS THAT YOU HEAR FROM COMMUNITIES.

ONE OF HE THINGS THAT CHANGED OBSERVE THE YEARS IS THAT MOST OF US STARTED OUT IN THE BUSINESS WE WENT TO WHERE THE JOB WAS AND WORRIED ABOUT THE LIVING ENVIRONMENT AFTERWARDS NOW I WANT TO GO SOMEPLACE IT IS COOL TO LIB.

OH BY THE WAY.

I WILL FIND EMPLOYMENT IN.

THAT IS PHILOSOPHICAL THING THAT A COMMISSION CANNOT CHANGE.

RIGHT.

ONE OF THE COLLEAGUES THE OR DAY WHEN IT WAS ANANNOUNCED POINTED OUT, THERE IS A REQUIREMENT THAT ONE PERSON ON THE COMMISSION BE UNDER 25.

>> ONE.

>> ONE.

>> ONE.

>> PROBABLY WON'T HAVE A VOTE.

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

THE NEEDS OF YOUNG PEOPLE COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, EVEN MYSELF, A DECADE OUT OF COLLEGE ARE VERY DIFFERENT AND PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR NEW OPPORTUNITIES AND CERTAINLY A BIG THING IS ALWAYS MONEY.

YOU KNOW, WHERE CAN YOU GO TO GET A GOOD JOB WITH GOOD DEGREES COMING OUT OF MICHIGAN SCHOOLS POTENTIALLY SO IT IS A HUGE ISSUE TO TRY TO RETAIN SOME OF THAT LOSS, THAT IS PROBABLY OONE OF THE MORE PRESSING OPTIONS AS OPPOSED TO POTENTIALLY AABLE TRAING OTHER PEOPLE.

THE FIRST THEY HAVE TO STAUNCH THE FLOW OF YOUNG PEOPLE LEAVING MICHIGAN.

>> IT IS A MAJOR, MAJOR ISSUE.

I HEAN, JUST KIND OF PLACE THE STAKES ON THIS IN SOME WAYS.

STITING THROUGH THE CONSENSUS REVENUE ESTIMATING CONFERENCE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

YOU HAD EXPERTS SAYING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THE LABOR FORCE OF THIS STATE IS AIMING.

THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS LOW RIGHT NOW.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO ATTRACT COMPANIES HERE TO CREATE JOBS IF WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE TO GO WORK IN THOSE JOBS.

YOU MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY AGE OUT OF THE WORKFORCE THEY WON'T HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE TOLL TAKE CARE OF THEM IN THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY.

>> SO YOU COULD HAVE ALL OF THE JOBS ANNOUNCEPS THEN BRINGING UNHUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS IN.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO FILL THE JOBS TO THE FUTURE.

THOSE ANNOUNCEMENTS ARE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE HAPPENING, SO IT IS MORE THAN JUST A NUMBER.

>> I DO THINK IN THE SAME CONTEXT THAT ANALYSIS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE RELATIVE NEAR FUTURE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN I MY WERE 70 AND OLDER IS THE SAME NUMBER AS ALL THE KIDS IN K THROUGH 12 IN THE STATE SO SPEAKS TO AGAIN, NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO FILL THE POSITIONS WHETHER THEY ARE ENOUGH POSITIONS IS DIFFERENT STORY.

>> THIS COMMISSION HAS SIMPLE ANSWER TO THIS PROBLEM.

MORE SUNSHINE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THAT RECENT -- SERIOUSLY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECENT SURVEY OF THE TOP 20 PLACES IN THE NATION TO VISIT DURING THE SUMMER.

MICHIGAN WAS NUMBER 18.

WE HAVE 39% SUNSHINE COMPARED TO FLOOR DID AT 82%.

YOU NO WHAT?

SUNSHINE BRINGINGS PEOPLE IN.

NO COMMISSION, NO GOVERNOR CAN DICTATE MORE SUNSHINE.

I HEARD YOU MENTION EARLIER, WE NEED COOL PLACES.

MICHIGAN HAS LOTS OF COOL PLACES.

>> LOOK.

>> COME ON.

>> MACKINAC ISLAND IS THE.

PER ONE DESTINATION FOR PEOPLE TO GO DURING THE SUMMER.

THE PROBLEM IS THE REST OF THE STATE IS NOT MACKINAC ISLAND.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE COUNTIES IN MICHIGAN THAT HAVE DRONE RECENTLY, WHERE ARE THEY?

>> GRAND RAPIDS.

ON LAKE MICHIGAN.

NORTHERN MICHIGAN ON LAKE MICHIGAN.

TRAVERSE CITY.

YOU KNOW?

OTTAWA COUNTY.

THESE ARE PLACES, THAT SHOULD BE ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE TO COME LIB.

NO?

>> YES.

BUT WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO IN HARBOR SPRINGS?

>> WE HEARD THIS FROM SENATOR AND MANY OTHERS, IF YOU ARE GOING TO WORK REMOTE, THAT IS NEW REALITY IN COVID.

THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCESS TO EASY, HIGH-SPEED INTERNET.

THAT IS SHORE YOU WE ARE SEEING ALL OVER THE TATE, RIGHT?

I KNOW, MY FAMILY IS FROM ALPENA.

UNTIL RECENTLY, YOU REALLY COULDN'T GET GREAT SERVICE IN ALPENA.

ALMOST DOWNTOWN.

LET ALONE IF YOU ARE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY.

SO IF YOU WANT TO MOVE IN THE GREAT PLACES THAT ARE AFFORDABLE, ENJOY THE MANY THINGS CAN DO IN MICHIGAN WHILE WORKING REMOTELY.

THERE ARE CHALLENGES THAT STILL STAND IN THE WAY OF THAT.

>> SITTING IN THE LOCAL McDONALD'S PARKING LOT IS NOT REALISTIC TY IF SOMEONE IS TRYING TO WORK FULL-TIME FROM HOME.

ALL RIGHT.

LET'S SWITCH GEARS.

MIKE TALKED ABOUT NOT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR OR RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR THEN THE STATE SENATOR WHO HAS NOT RULED IT OUT.

WELL, I MEAN.

THIS IS STRIKING IN THE PAST, WHEN REPORTERS FOR THE DETROIT NEWS HAVE ASKED ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR?

HE FLATLY SAID NO.

THAT IS RIDICULOUS.

ARE WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME.

THE LAST TIME MY COLLEAGUE ASKED HIM.

HE DIDN'T SAY NO.

HE SAID I GOT TO RUN FOR MAYOR NEXT.

>> FIRST THINGS FIRST WHICH I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT THE RUMORS ARE AROUND TOWN AND THAT THIS GUY IS PREPARING TO RUN THEN HE WILL BE A VERY TOUGH CANDIDATE IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY BECAUSE HE REPRESENTS THE CITY, THE LARGEST CITY IN THE STATE WITH A LOT OF DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY VOTERS THEN HE HAS THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THESE POWERFUL GROUPS.

>> STARTING AT THE WHITE HAS AND WORKING BACKWARDS.

THAT IS A GREAT POINT.

I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT JOE BIDEN.

HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.

YEAH.

I MEAN, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT PERSON TO WATCH IN THE COMING MONTHS.

WHEN A PERSON SAYS FIRST THINGS FIRST I GOT TO DO THIS.

THAT IS A CODE FOR, YEAH.

JUST SHUT UP AND DO IN ASK ME RIGHT.

RIGHT.

>> SURE THAT IS A BIG RED FLAG.

A BIG EXCLAMATION POINT.

THE ANSWER IS NO IF IT IS NO.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT IS COMPLETELY FAIR.

THAT IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALL KNOW POTENTIALLY INTERESTED IN.

THEN A LOT THAT COULD CHANGE.

THERE IS A LOT OF TIME.

YEAH.

THE EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT YOU KNOW.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS EARLIER ABOUT THIS RELATIVELY LARGE DEMOCRATIC BENCH AND PRETTY OBVIOUS POTENTIAL CANDIDATES THEN MIKE'S MAKE IS AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

THE IS OBVIOUSLY VERY WELL-KNOWN IN METRO DETROIT.

IF I PRESIDENT TO KNOW IF HE HAS THE SAME.

NOBODY KNOWS WHO HE IS.

PROBABLY NOT.

PEOPLE ARING IF TO KNOW.

AND I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE PARTY AND I DON'T KNOW THAT IS GOING TO HAVE IMPACT ON THE VIABLE.

IT MATE.

IT MIGHT NOT.

YEAH.

IF HE DECIDES TO GET IN.

HES A HEAVYWEIGHT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK.

THIS IS SENATOR YEAH.

MALORY McMORROW IN ADDITIONS TO THE NAME STARTS CIRCULATING FOR WHO IS NEXT.

HER NAME CERTAINLY SHOW BE UP THIS AND PROVEN FUND-RAISING PROULESS AND HAS NOT JUST STATE RECOGNITION AT THIS PO, BUT NATIONAL RECOGNITION AND FROM GOING VIRAL AND HAS PROVEN HERSELF TO BE PRETTY ADAPT TO TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THESE ISSUES, THAT NOT JUST PEOPLE AS WHOLE ARE TALKING ABOUT BUT AS YOUNG PEOPLE ARE TALKING.

HE SH IS ANG YOER PERSON AND SHE IS, SHE HAS GOT HER TENDER ON THE PULSE OF THESE MAJOR ISSUES THAT ARE RESONATING WITH DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW.

SO I WOULD, I WOULD SAY, YEAH.

IF SHE IS MULLING A RUN AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW, THEN, AT LEAST, AT THIS STABLE, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL YEARS OUT, KNOW, HER NAME COULD HER NAME COULD COME TOLL THE TOP.

IT IS INCREDIBLY STRIKING THAT DEMOCRATS ARE ALREADY POSITIONING FOR ALMOST EVERY SPOT ON THE TICKET AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET FOR 2026 ALREADY.

THEN, REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO THEIR CONTENDERS ARE FOR THE U.S. SENATE.

IN THE U.S. SENATE.

SO NEXT YEAR.

THIS SHOULD BE A RACE THAT IS CLOSE.

WELL, I MEAN.

OUR PAST U.S. SENATE RACES HAVE BEEN REL RELATIVELY CLOSE AND DONALD TRUMP AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET HE HAS HAD CLOSE RACES IN 34 I MY THE LAST TWO TIMES, SO I MEAN, WHERE THE TWO PARTIES ARE RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT PLACES F. WELL, THIS, I THINK, LOOK.

FROM OAKLAND COUNTY.

THEN SOCCER MOMS WHO HELPED TO ELECT GRETCHEN WHITMER GOVERNOR CAN TURN AROUND TO HELP TO ELECT HER.

SHE IS A WORKING MOTHER AND TALKED ABOUT THAT.

SHE IS SOMEBODY THAT COULD BE RELATABLE TO YOUNGER VOTERS THAT COULD BE SOMEBODY THAT COULD DRAW OUT SOME OF THOSE VOTERS IN THE PRIMARY THEN WORTH NOTING AFTER OF THAT VIRAL MOMENT IN THE SENATE AND TALKED ABOUT UNFUND-RAISING E-MAIL SHE RAISED A TON OF MONEY IN A RACE SHE DIDN'T NEED IT RIGHT.

SHE WAS UNKING ARE RUNNING IN EASY DEMOCRATIC SEAT.

PEOPLE REMEMBERED THAT RIGHT.

WHEN ARE DOLLING OUT MONEY.

SHE WAS A FACTOR IN WINNING THE SENATE MAY RAILROAD CONTINUE FOR THE DEMOCRATS PEOPLE ARING IF TO REMEMBER THAT.

PEOPLE REMEMBER THAT.

THIS IS A HUGE FACTOR ESPECIALLY OR SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT MOUNTED A STATEWIDE RACE BEFORE AND CAMPAIGNED IN TRAVERSE CITY AND ALL OVER THE STATE FOR THE OTHER SENATORS THEN GIVEN THEM MUN INI TO HELP A LOT IF SHE TEE SIDES TO MR. T. THAT SHE HAS SITTING IN THE COMMUTER 6000 CONTRIBUTORS WHO GAVE HER 1.3 MILLION.

DO YOU THINK IF SHE MIGHT RUN FOR GOVERNOR SHE MIGHT GO TO THAT FILE AND SEN OUT E-MAIL IF YEAH.

THERE ARE A LOT OF DEMOCRAT IN THE STATES THAT ARE COME BILE BYING THOSE LISTS NOW.

SHE HASES A HEAD START.

JOCELYN BENSON IS SITTING THERE.

SHE IS A NATIONAL FIGURE.

9 MILLION.

>> YEAH.

SHE HAS GOT A DONOR BASE FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY FROM HER WORK ON VOTING ISSUES THEN I AM SURE SHE IS FOG LOOK AT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR THEN I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS HERE IS DEMOCRATS HAVE BECOME VERY GOOD VERY QUICKLY AT MAKING SURE THAT THESE PRIMARY RACES DON'T HAVE HAPPEN.

YES.

PICKING OUT PERSONS AND PICKING OUT SOMEONE SAYING THIS IS OUR PERSON FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION.

CLEARING THE FIELD.

THEN, WHEN IS THAT GOING TO STOP.

IT WILL EVENTUALLY STOP.

WE WILL HAVE SOME MASSIVE PRIMARY FIGHT OVER THE FUTURE OF THE PARTY AT SOME POINT.

WHEN HE IS IT.

WHAT IS THE RACE.

THE GOVERNOR'S RACE COULD BE THE CRUCIAL FOR THIS.

PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO SAY.

OK. FOR THE SAKE OF THE PARTY.

>> WELL, RIGHT.

I THINK, TOO.

DIF EPOINT EARLIER SHALL THEN SHALL IT IS ALSO A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE JUST BROUGHT UP ARE WHITE.

AND A LOT OF BLACK DEMOCRATS ESPECIALLY AFTER THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS WANT TO SEE, WANT TO SEE MORE BLACK DEMOCRATS REPRESENTED AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

YOU STARTED TO SEE SOME PEOPLE, SOME PEOPLE ENTER THEIR NAMES INTO THE U.S. SENATE RACE FOR EXAMPLE.

WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE IN LOAD UP BEHIND ALYSSA BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO PUT ALTERNATIVE WAYS THROUGHOUT SO I WOULD SAY THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE IN ARE ISSUE.

>> KEEP.

KEEP THE CHATTER THROUGHOUT ABOUT HER CANDIDACY IS, AND THEY ARE AWARE OF THIS.

WHEN WE HAD REPRESENTATIVE CARTER FROM DETROIT.

HE SAID, YOU KNOW.

WE DON'T WANT ORDINATION HERE.

WHAT ABOUT A BLACK PERSON REASON FOG THE SEAT THAT IS ALIVE AND WELL OUT THERE.

YEAH.

THINK FROM THIS POINT OUT IN THE U.S. SENATE RACE WHERE ALYSSA HAS KIND OF BEEN PECKED PEE THE ESTABLISHMENT TO BE THE CANDIDATE AND THERE ARE OTHERS IN THE STATE.

OTHER DEMOCRATS SAYING, WHY ARE THE ESTABLISHMENT LEADERS OF THE PARTY GETTING TO PICK WHO THE NOMINEE IS T. LET'S HAVE A RACE AND FIGURE THIS OUT.

ALL RIGHT.

FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN ST. LOUIS THE GUESTS THIS MORNING WHO FORMER CONGRESSMAN FRED UPTON.

CONGRESSMAN, WELCOME TO "OFF THE RECORD."

LET'S BEGIN WITH THE NO LABEL PARTY IDEA.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING THIS IS A SUICIDE MISSION IF YOU GO THERE, DONALD TRUMP WILL BE ELECTED PRESIDENT.

BECAUSE YOU WILL SUCK VOTES FROM WHOMEVER THE DEMOCRAT IS.

DO YOU PLEAD XIL?

I.

>> , I DON'T.

YOUR PREMISE IS WRONG.

THIS IS NOT 40 OR 30 YEARS AGO.

WHEN PER ROW DID TAKE 20% OF THE VOTE.

MOST OF THEM FROM REPUBLICANS GEORGE BUSH COST THEM THE ELECTION AND I THINK, IN MANY MINDS, BUT, BUT THE POLLING ACTUALLY SHOWS THAT NO LABELS TICKET WOULD DRAW EQUALLY FROM BOTH THE REPUBLICAN AND THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE AND WHY IS THAT?

IT IS BECAUSE ABOUT 70% OF THE AMERICAN VOTERS SAY, WE DON'T WANT TO REMATCH BETWEEN BIDEN AND TRUMP AND, AND, THE OTHER THING THAT POLLING SHOWS, IS THAT EVEN DESPITE THE RECENT EN INDICTMENTS ON THE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP TRUMP BEATS BIDEN BY 7 POINTS.

HAS FOR THE LAST MONS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS ACTUALLY ESTABLISH AN AGENDA, A WORKING DOCUMENT AND THAT WHICH BE BIPARTISAN ON A PUMP BER OF DIFFERENT ISSUES AND WHETHER IT BE CRIME, EN IMITATION, ENERGY SECURITY, JOB, THE ECONOMY WHICH IS PROBABLY A LOT WORSE SHAPE NEXT YEAR THAN IT IS THIS YEAR.

REALLY SORT OF GO TO THE MID TOLL SEE IF WE CANNOT FIND SOME CANDIDATES THAT LATER ON THAT MAY FIT THE TEMPLATE.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, I MEAN, GOING, THIS DIRECTION, SUGGESTS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE THAT REPUBLICANS CAN FIND MORE MODERATE FIGURE ROOTING NOW.

IS THAT ACCURATE TO SAY?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU LOOK.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE SIX MOS AWAY THE FIRST VOTES OF THE PRIMARIES, YOU KNOW, WE NOT WHAT?

ALMOST A DOZEN CANDIDATES NOW AND REPUBLICAN SIDE.

AND IT WOULD BE LIKE 2016.

TRUMP HAS THAT BASE LOCKED IN.

IN FACT, HE HAS EXPAND LIS HEAD OVER DESANTIS SINCE EARLY MARCH AND HE LOOKS MORE AND MORE LOOK HE WILL BE THE NOMINEE.

THE SAME THING WITH JOE BIDEN.

AND JOE IS PRESIDENT HAS DONE A GOOD JOB OF GETTING MAYBE TRACKERS TO ON ON THE SIDE.

LOOK AT OUR GOVERNOR.

SHE IS COCHAIR OF THE CAMPAIGN AND J.B. PRITZKER IN ILLINOIS AND NEWSOME IN CALIFORNIA AGAIN IT LOOKS LIKE HE IS THE LIKELY NOMINEE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, SO IT IS NOT OVER FOR SURE, BUT EVEN WITH MIKE PENCE GETTING IN THE RACE NEXT WEEK, YOU KNOW, WITH OTHERS THAT ARE IN, IT, IT APPEARS IN ALL THE POLLING SHOWS THAT, THAT IN FACT TRUMP IS PULLING AWAY FROM THE REST OF THE FIELD.

YOU DON'T THINK RON DESANTIS CAN BEAT DONALD TRUMP IN A PRIMARY RACES?

>> UM, NOT, HE COULD ONE-ON-ONE.

BUZZ WITH TEN FOLKS IN.

LOOK AT SOUTH CAROLINA.

YOU GOT -- HE IS THERE.

TRUMP IS THERE.

IS EARLY PRIMARY STATE.

SO IS NECKLY HALEY AND TIM SCOTT.

THE SETUP IS DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS IN EARLIER YEARS AND WHOEVER GETS MAJORITY OF THE VOTES GETS ALL OF THE DELEGATES AND I MEAN, BACK IN 2016 YOU HAD A REAL CONTEST HERE IN MICHIGAN I THINK TRUMP GOT ONE-THIRD OF THEM AND RUBIO GOT ONE-THIRD OF THEM AND NOW IN A LOT OF THE STATES IT ISING IF TO BE, GOSH, YOU GOT 32% OF THE VOTE IN A TEN-PERSON FIELD.

YOU GET 100% OF THE DEMOCRATS BE?

IT IS EASIER FOR TRUMP THIS TIME IN TERMS OF GETTING THAT DELEGATE COUNT UP THAN IT WAS IN 2016.

>> EXAMINING CONSERVATISM IN REPUBLICANS.

CRAIG WAS MENTIONING THIS EARLIER WHEN THE PARTY WAS INFLUX AT THE MOLE.

DO YOU THINK IT WILL TAKE SOME SORT OF UNIFYING POLICY OR UNIFYING PERSON OR FRANKLY LIKE MOVING AWAY FROM FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP TO TRY TO BRING POWER BACK TO CONSERVATIVE LEADERS IN M HE MY.

WHAT WILL IT TAKE IF I THINK IT WILL TAKE AT LEAST ANOTHER ELECTION CYCLE BEFORE THE MICHIGAN POLITICS HERE.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE GETS STRAIGHTENED OUT.

I MEAN, YOU SAW THAT IN THE LAST YEAR AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THAT WHETHER OUR NEW STATE CHAIR AND YOU HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LIKE SHABLEING NARE HEADS THEN SAY LET'S JUST WAIT UNTIL THINGS BOTTOM OUT.

WE ARE TOTING IFING TO HAVE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN MACKINAC LIKE WE HAVE DONE IN MY HIVE TIME.

WE GOT A PO BOX NOW IN LANSING INSTEAD OF OFFICE TEAM OR WITH LOTS OF FOLKS.

AND YOU KNOW, NOT RAISING MONEY.

IT IS REALLY HARD VENTURE IN MICHIGAN AS WE CREATED AFTER THE LAST ELECTION.

>> CONGRESSMAN.

LET'S BE BLUNT HERE.

YOUR BRAND OF REPUBLICANISM IN PI MY IS DEADER THAN A DOORNAIL.

WELL, WELL.

>> NOW IT A WAIT A MINUTE.

WE HADED IF NEWS THIS LAST WEEK.

WE SAW A REAL DEBT S WITH THE PROBLEM SOLVER CAU SUSS AND NO LABELS WHICH IS A GROUP THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR AWHILE WHICH IS WHAT I AM HOPING TO SEE HAPPEN WITH THE THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE BUT IT WAS THOSE GROUPS THAT ACTUALLY PUT THE FOLKS TOGETHER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

OVER 300 VOTESES IN THE HOUSE.

WE HAD 60 SOME FOT VOTES.

63 VOTES IN THE SENATE.

LATE THURSDAY NIGHT.

AND WE AVERTED THE CRISIS AND IT WAS COMPROMISED.

IT WAS, I WOULD CALL IT FRED UPTON HAD POLL TECHS IN TERMS OF ACTUALLY GETTING THINGS DONE AND WORKING WITH BOTH SIDES TO OVERT A REAL CRISIS THAT WOULD HAVE REALLY BEEN A KILLER IN TERMS OF IMPACT ON OUR ECONOMY AND NOT ONLY HERE, CERTAINLY, IN MICHIGAN, BUT AROUND REALLY THE REST OF THE WORLD.

>> CONGRESSMAN.

MY QUESTION WAS.

YOUR PRAND, REPUBLICANISM IN MICHIGAN IS DEADER THAN A DOORNAIL.

WELL, REMEMBER.

REMEMBER.

MY DISTRICT WHEN I REPRESENTED IT, SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN.

KALAMAZOO IS A SWING DISTRICT IN EVERY WHICH WAY.

IT STILL IS IN THE WAY WAS CONFIG GOURD IT CHANGED NOW THATS TO REDISTRICTING.

BUT OUR DISTRICT THE WAY IT WAS CONFESSION GURED IN ALL BUT TWO ELECTIONS THE LAST 100 YEARS ACTUALLY WENT FOR THE PRESIDENT, WENT FOR THE WINNER OF THE PRESIDENTIAL LEX AND WENT FOR OH PAM MA.

IT WENT FOR BILL CLINTON.

ENT WITH FOR DONALD TRUMP.

UPTON GOT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 15 TO 20 MORE THAN THE TOP OF THE TICKET IN TERM OF THE PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER SO I WOULD SAY I HAD GOOD RECORD DURING THOSE 25 ELECTIONS WHEN I GOT HIT FROM THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT.

BUT YOU CAN'T BEAT WHEN ARE TALKING ABOUT RUNNING THE THIRD PARTY CANTATE FOR.

YOU CAN'T BE TWO MAJOR PARTY NOMINEES WITH HEY WE HAVE IDEA OF ONE ELSE.

WHO ARE NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO COULD BEAT THEM?

>> NO.

WELL, THE FIRST STEP IS WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO GET THE SIGNATURES TO GET ON THE BALLOTS.

TO BE A VIABLE FORCE.

ROSS PEROT DID THAT IN '92 WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING THAT DONE.

WE HAVE FIVE STATES NOW.

FOUR TO FIVE STATES THAT ARE CERTIFIED INFARCT THAT ARE ON THE WAY WITH COLLECTED THE RIGHT NUMBER OF SK TURES AND THEY NEED SIGNATURES AND THEY NEED THE FINAL STAMP OF APPROVAL.

WE ARE EXPECTING TO GET TEN.

MICHIGAN WILL START PROBLEM IN JULY.

BUT WE'LL HAVE A GOOD NUMBER AND DOZENS OF STATES AND BEFORE THE END OF THE FIRST QUARTER NEXT REAR, OUR GOAL, OUR AIM IS TO GET CLOSE TO ALL 50 STATES.

THE NATIONAL CONVENTION IN DALLAS IN APRIL.

THEN, NEXT YEAR.

THEN, OUR TWO, ACTUALLY FINISH THE THREE CO CHAIRS NOW.

WE HAVE JOE LIEBERMAN ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE AND WE HAVE FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA IS THE REPUBLICAN CO CHAIR SO, SO STEP BY STEP.

GET ON THE BALLOTS.

FROM THE SIGNATURES TO GET THAT TONE.

WE'LL HAVE AGAIN TA.

WITH'S WE'LL HAVE A COMMON SENSE DOCUMENT ON I DON'T KNOW.

15 TO 20TIVE RENT ISSUES THAT THAT OUGHT TO BE DONE BEFORE THE END OF THE MOP.

THEN WE CAN, THAT HAVE A PROCESS OF SEEING WHO THE NOMINEES WILL BE LIKELY TO HAVE A REPUBLICAN AND A DEMOCRAT ON THE TICKET ITSELF AND WAY BACK THEN IN '08.

HE CAME THIS CLOSES TO PICKING JOE BEB LIEBERMAN AS THE RUNNING MATE.

IT MA I HAVE ABOUT AND BETTER CROWD COM THAN PECKING SARAH PALIN BACK AT THAT DATE.

>> I THINK, GOING BACK TO THE MICHIGAN POLITICS DO YOU SEE ANYONE AS EMERGING LEADER WHO COULD POTENTIALLY PICK UP YOUR POD RATE MANTLE AND MAKE A COMPELLING CASE FOR STATEWIDE FISES?

I DON'T.

>> OFFICE?

>> I DON'T.

I DON'T.

I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME GOOD PEOPLE OUT THERE.

WHETHER THEY WANT TO TAKE ON THE CURRENT STATUS QUO I TON SEE ANYONE VENTURING IN THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE OL DO THAT NOT IN 2024 ANYWAY.

TOLL PICKS IS TRIBAL RIGHT WE ARE SEEING DIFFERENT TRIBES.

HOW CAN YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE TO LEAVE THOSE TRIBES TO COME FOR THE IDEA THAT FAILED AND THIS IDEA OF THE THIRD PARTY OR THE IDEA OF A CONSENSUS CANTATE.

WHY WOULD PEOPLE DO THAT.

WELL THEN AGAIN.

LOOK AT THE POLLING.

5% DON'T WANT TO REMATCH HERE BETWEEN THE TWO.

FRANKLY, IF, IF IT IS NOT BIDEN AND TRUMP I AM NOT SURE THAT NO LABEL WAS GO FORWARD THAT IS WOULD BE DECISION MADE DOWN THE LINE BUT LOOKS MORE AND MORE LIKE THIS IS ON THE TEM CRATIC SIDE AND THEN YOU CAN SEE JO JOE BIDEN 36%.

TRAGICALLY, HE HAD ANOTHER FALL YESTERDAY.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT HIS AGE THAT IS HOT GOING TOLLING GO AWAY.

IT ISING IF TO BE-YEAR-OLDER NEXT YEAR.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, TRUMP SEEMS TO BE RUNNING AWAY WITH IT.

THE MORE PEOPLE GETTING IN, HE MAY BE SENDING CHECKS TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE MAKING SURE THEY GET ON THE APPROXIMATELY LOT TO MAKE SURE IN FACT HIS% OR WHATEVER IT IS GOING TO BE IS GOING TO BE MORE THAN THE OTHER TEN THAT ARE OUT THERE, SO, SO MR. UPTON.

YOU SAID THAT IN RULY THE EFFORT WILL START UNMICHIGAN TO GET ON THE APPROXIMATELY HOT.

WHO WILL CARRY THE NAIL FOR YOU ON THAT?

HOW MUCH MONEY ARE YOU PUTTING IN A CAMPAIGN IN MY HI TO GET THE NAMES?

>> WELL, WELL, WE HAVE IDENTIFIED FUNDING RESOURCES IN MICHIGAN THEY HAD A THIRD PARTY.

YOU NEED 45,000 SIGNATURES THAT EFFORT IS GOING TO START IN ERNEST COME JULY.

WHO IS GOING TO LEAD THE EFFORT?

>> WELL, WELL, WE HAVE GOT, WELL, I DON'T WANT TO -- I AM NOT AT LIBERTY TO SAY WHO THEY ARE NOW.

WE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE IDENTIFIED THAT ARE WILLING TO GO FORWARD.

THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ANYONE RIGHT NOW.

ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

NO.

NO.

TELL ME WHO THEY ARE?

HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU HAVE IN MY?

I WELL, WE GOT SOME STATEWIDE FOLKS THAT HAVE VOLUNTEERED TO COME FORWARD.

WE NOT SOME MEETINGS, IN FACT, THIS NEXT WEEK, ACROSS THE STATE, AND, BUT WE, THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE ISSUE YOU.

WE GOT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO DO THAT AND, AND WE KNOW THESE BALLOTS, 45,000 VOTES.

LOOK.

LOOK AT TEMPERATURES.

YOU LOOK AT THE BALLOTS THAT WEED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THEN I THINK, THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET A LOT MORE THAN 45,000 SIGNATURES.

RIGHT.

CONGRESSMAN YEAH.

CAN YOU HANG ON FOR OVERTIME SEGMENT SURE.

YOU GOT NOTHING BETTER TO TO RIGHT.

>> YEAH.

RIGHT.

DONE CONGRESSMAN.

STAY RIGHT THERE AND DO THE CLOSED CREDITS THEN THE FORMER CONGRESSMAN HERE ON-OFF THE RECORD.

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